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	<title>Comments on: Helping “Carl” with Burnout</title>
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	<description>It's not about the tech; it's about the people.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris_Benge</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris_Benge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-67</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been there and I&#039;ve seen it happen.  Part of it is in how you pace life and ministry.  To read more check out my post on pacing at &lt;a href=&quot;http://cbtechnicalministry.blogspot.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://cbtechnicalministry.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve been there and I&#039;ve seen it happen.  Part of it is in how you pace life and ministry.  To read more check out my post on pacing at <a href="http://cbtechnicalministry.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://cbtechnicalministry.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Porter</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-63</guid>
		<description>I am stuck by the fact that most of the comments here are along the lines of &quot;Carl needs to... &quot; or &quot;the leadership needs to... &quot;

Am I missing something, or is that not what the question was?  As I understand the question, here we have a bystander to the situation, someone seeing a new Carl being created.  My guess, reading between the lines, is that this Carl may not even realize that he *is* Carl, yet.

I&#039;m tempted to say &quot;tell him to read Anthony&#039;s posts&quot;, but the reality is that if he doesn&#039;t recognize that he is Carl, it isn&#039;t going to help.

If I put myself back in Carl&#039;s shoes for a moment (as an aside, why is it that virtually everyone involved in tech ministry identifies so readily with Carl?  maybe a topic for a future post?), and ask &quot;what do I wish someone had done for me?&quot; the answer is: this person needs to go to the leadership, and share her concerns.  Maybe point THEM back here to Anthony&#039;s posts on the subject.  This should be done, of course, in accordance with Matthew 18.

The truth is, being a third party is one of the toughest positions to be in, when situations like this arise.  I think that she is coming forward, looking for help, is absolutely amazing.  I know that in most Carl situations, it has to be obvious to people around them, yet most people don&#039;t want to say anything.  So on behalf of &#039;your&#039; Carl, Renee, even if he never knows or thanks you... Thank You.  Even if it doesn&#039;t change the situation, the fact that you care enough to get involved.  Thank you.  From all of us who ever have been Carl, and even will be Carl.  the only way Carl will cease to exist is if people like you get involved.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am stuck by the fact that most of the comments here are along the lines of &#8220;Carl needs to&#8230; &#8221; or &#8220;the leadership needs to&#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>Am I missing something, or is that not what the question was?  As I understand the question, here we have a bystander to the situation, someone seeing a new Carl being created.  My guess, reading between the lines, is that this Carl may not even realize that he *is* Carl, yet.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tempted to say &#8220;tell him to read Anthony&#8217;s posts&#8221;, but the reality is that if he doesn&#8217;t recognize that he is Carl, it isn&#8217;t going to help.</p>
<p>If I put myself back in Carl&#8217;s shoes for a moment (as an aside, why is it that virtually everyone involved in tech ministry identifies so readily with Carl?  maybe a topic for a future post?), and ask &#8220;what do I wish someone had done for me?&#8221; the answer is: this person needs to go to the leadership, and share her concerns.  Maybe point THEM back here to Anthony&#8217;s posts on the subject.  This should be done, of course, in accordance with Matthew 18.</p>
<p>The truth is, being a third party is one of the toughest positions to be in, when situations like this arise.  I think that she is coming forward, looking for help, is absolutely amazing.  I know that in most Carl situations, it has to be obvious to people around them, yet most people don&#8217;t want to say anything.  So on behalf of &#8216;your&#8217; Carl, Renee, even if he never knows or thanks you&#8230; Thank You.  Even if it doesn&#8217;t change the situation, the fact that you care enough to get involved.  Thank you.  From all of us who ever have been Carl, and even will be Carl.  the only way Carl will cease to exist is if people like you get involved.  <img src='http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike Porter</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Not having read the book, I can&#039;t comment for certain on the subject matter, but I think it&#039;s worth pointing out that there is more than one way to confront someone.  As Anne says, doing it &quot;in a Biblical way&quot; is important.

When it comes to church leadership, we *must* recognize that they are called there by God, so unless it is a case of clear Biblical error on the part of the leadership, confrontation, especially a public confrontation, is NOT the Biblical way to handle it.

I was driven to that stage once, and with the exception of my wife and the Pastor (it was primarily the Sr. Pastor that I dealt with at that church), nobody knew the reasons I was leaving.  That few bothered to ask is a sad commentary, but the truth is, I wouldn&#039;t have shared the details anyway.  One thing I will not do is turn it into an &quot;us vs them&quot; situation.

The point is that it is possible to &quot;flee without confronting&quot;, and still make sure that those responsible know their role.  What they will do with that is between them and God.  As far as anyone else knew, we were doing exactly that.

Now I need to go read the book :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having read the book, I can&#8217;t comment for certain on the subject matter, but I think it&#8217;s worth pointing out that there is more than one way to confront someone.  As Anne says, doing it &#8220;in a Biblical way&#8221; is important.</p>
<p>When it comes to church leadership, we *must* recognize that they are called there by God, so unless it is a case of clear Biblical error on the part of the leadership, confrontation, especially a public confrontation, is NOT the Biblical way to handle it.</p>
<p>I was driven to that stage once, and with the exception of my wife and the Pastor (it was primarily the Sr. Pastor that I dealt with at that church), nobody knew the reasons I was leaving.  That few bothered to ask is a sad commentary, but the truth is, I wouldn&#8217;t have shared the details anyway.  One thing I will not do is turn it into an &#8220;us vs them&#8221; situation.</p>
<p>The point is that it is possible to &#8220;flee without confronting&#8221;, and still make sure that those responsible know their role.  What they will do with that is between them and God.  As far as anyone else knew, we were doing exactly that.</p>
<p>Now I need to go read the book <img src='http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: anthonycoppedge</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>anthonycoppedge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-53</guid>
		<description>I agree. Anne wrote a terrific story in &quot;Mad Church Disease&quot; and I recommend that book! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Anne wrote a terrific story in &quot;Mad Church Disease&quot; and I recommend that book!</p>
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		<title>By: anthonycoppedge</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>anthonycoppedge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Thanks for chiming in, Anne. I agree, most of the time the confrontation happens when we&#039;re hurt the most and emotions are high - that&#039;s a dangerous place to be! Thank you for your excellent book, too!  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for chiming in, Anne. I agree, most of the time the confrontation happens when we&#039;re hurt the most and emotions are high &#8211; that&#039;s a dangerous place to be! Thank you for your excellent book, too!</p>
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		<title>By: anne jackson</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>anne jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to clarify - not confronting someone isn&#039;t acceptable, it&#039;s confronting within wisdom and using truth in love. Choosing battles. in a Biblical manner. :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to clarify &#8211; not confronting someone isn&#039;t acceptable, it&#039;s confronting within wisdom and using truth in love. Choosing battles. in a Biblical manner. <img src='http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-58</guid>
		<description>I read the free chapter from Mad Church Disease and disagreed with a key point it made.  That point was fleeing without confronting.  When leaders are not confronted or their repeated poor actions are not brought to light to those in leadership over them, failure occurs.  That is failure to call others out on the carpet when that&#039;s exactly what needs to be done.  We have become a culture of &quot;just don&#039;t offend anyone.&quot;  
 
In the case of Carl, and anyone like him, he has to routes in which to travel to improve his situtation. 
1. Talk with those who work with him (other tech&#039;s, musicians, worship leaders) and have those people talk with those above them about Carl&#039;s value.  The closer leaders are to each other in the hierarchical chart, the more likely they are to believe each other.  
2. Have a long lunch with one of those in leadership over him who only view him as a tech head.  Ask specifically why they view him as such.  Ask what they expect from him.  And present them with a list of all the work he does (or offer to have them shadow him for one service day).   
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the free chapter from Mad Church Disease and disagreed with a key point it made.  That point was fleeing without confronting.  When leaders are not confronted or their repeated poor actions are not brought to light to those in leadership over them, failure occurs.  That is failure to call others out on the carpet when that&#039;s exactly what needs to be done.  We have become a culture of &quot;just don&#039;t offend anyone.&quot;  </p>
<p>In the case of Carl, and anyone like him, he has to routes in which to travel to improve his situtation.<br />
1. Talk with those who work with him (other tech&#039;s, musicians, worship leaders) and have those people talk with those above them about Carl&#039;s value.  The closer leaders are to each other in the hierarchical chart, the more likely they are to believe each other.<br />
2. Have a long lunch with one of those in leadership over him who only view him as a tech head.  Ask specifically why they view him as such.  Ask what they expect from him.  And present them with a list of all the work he does (or offer to have them shadow him for one service day).</p>
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		<title>By: A. T. Elwer</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>A. T. Elwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-57</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if you can &quot;open the eyes of leadership&quot; - at least not you alone. Burnout in situations come because of particular attitudes held by the staff and by &quot;Carl&quot;. 
 
First, for &quot;Carl&quot; there is an issue of identity- he is more than a technician, hes a child of God.  Until his identity is founded in the position that God has given &quot;Carl&quot; as a co-heir with Christ, burnout will always be a possibility because his Christian service cannot inform who he is as a person. Because if it does, he could always become more &quot;holy&quot; or a better &quot;Christian&quot; by serving more. And if there is criticism, it becomes not just criticism about what &quot;Carl&quot; does but about who &quot;Carl&quot; is; Its a judgement on the very nature of his identity. 
 
Second for the leadership there is an issue of value thats related to the first issue. If people become more valuable for their service rather than who they are are there is an issue. Its not bad people skills, its bad leadership in general. Leadership is responsible for identifying possible burnouts and comming along side and helping them. But often the more a &quot;Carl&quot; serves the leadership, the happier they are with him, as long as he fills just the one niche they need him to. But as soon as he &quot;breaks out&quot; of that image, expressing what he thinks or concerns hes no longer filling that niche. But the truth is, God&#039;s design is for us always to break out of the niche, to grow in faith and knowledge of Him as well as in our particular skill areas. To force &quot;Carl&quot; back into that little hole he came from is to ignore the working of the Spirit of God in his life.  
 
But these are statements about what is happening, not advice on how to change it.  
 
As a former &quot;Carl&quot;, the best thing I can recommend is to establish your identity in God and not in what you do for Him. If you need a break from ministry to do that, take one. Don&#039;t take a break out of spite &quot;It&#039;ll show them how much they need me&quot; or out of exhaustion &quot;I&#039;m wore out and I just cant take it any more&quot;. Take it as a Sabbath, a rest in which to seek to know the Lord.  
 
My other advice for &quot;Carl&quot; comes after he does the first step (which I know is a big one) is to start looking for and recognizing truth in given situations. Everybody has wounds and issues that cause them to respond to those around them in different ways even pastors. Remember that we do not serve pastors. We serve the Church and God.  So when Church leadership responds negatively to some thing you say or do, you can continue on with internallizing the statement or you can recognize it for what it is, a response that has been passed through their hurts, wounds and filters that may or may not have have anything to do with you even though it is directed at you.  
 
The Job of the pastor as outlined in scripture is to equip the saints for service and though at times we may serve at their discretion, we do not serve pastors. It bears repeating. We do not serve pastors. We serve the Church and God. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not sure if you can &quot;open the eyes of leadership&quot; &#8211; at least not you alone. Burnout in situations come because of particular attitudes held by the staff and by &quot;Carl&quot;. </p>
<p>First, for &quot;Carl&quot; there is an issue of identity- he is more than a technician, hes a child of God.  Until his identity is founded in the position that God has given &quot;Carl&quot; as a co-heir with Christ, burnout will always be a possibility because his Christian service cannot inform who he is as a person. Because if it does, he could always become more &quot;holy&quot; or a better &quot;Christian&quot; by serving more. And if there is criticism, it becomes not just criticism about what &quot;Carl&quot; does but about who &quot;Carl&quot; is; Its a judgement on the very nature of his identity. </p>
<p>Second for the leadership there is an issue of value thats related to the first issue. If people become more valuable for their service rather than who they are are there is an issue. Its not bad people skills, its bad leadership in general. Leadership is responsible for identifying possible burnouts and comming along side and helping them. But often the more a &quot;Carl&quot; serves the leadership, the happier they are with him, as long as he fills just the one niche they need him to. But as soon as he &quot;breaks out&quot; of that image, expressing what he thinks or concerns hes no longer filling that niche. But the truth is, God&#039;s design is for us always to break out of the niche, to grow in faith and knowledge of Him as well as in our particular skill areas. To force &quot;Carl&quot; back into that little hole he came from is to ignore the working of the Spirit of God in his life.  </p>
<p>But these are statements about what is happening, not advice on how to change it.  </p>
<p>As a former &quot;Carl&quot;, the best thing I can recommend is to establish your identity in God and not in what you do for Him. If you need a break from ministry to do that, take one. Don&#039;t take a break out of spite &quot;It&#039;ll show them how much they need me&quot; or out of exhaustion &quot;I&#039;m wore out and I just cant take it any more&quot;. Take it as a Sabbath, a rest in which to seek to know the Lord.  </p>
<p>My other advice for &quot;Carl&quot; comes after he does the first step (which I know is a big one) is to start looking for and recognizing truth in given situations. Everybody has wounds and issues that cause them to respond to those around them in different ways even pastors. Remember that we do not serve pastors. We serve the Church and God.  So when Church leadership responds negatively to some thing you say or do, you can continue on with internallizing the statement or you can recognize it for what it is, a response that has been passed through their hurts, wounds and filters that may or may not have have anything to do with you even though it is directed at you.  </p>
<p>The Job of the pastor as outlined in scripture is to equip the saints for service and though at times we may serve at their discretion, we do not serve pastors. It bears repeating. We do not serve pastors. We serve the Church and God.</p>
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		<title>By: ryanbrancheau</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>ryanbrancheau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-56</guid>
		<description>I thought what we do, we do as unto the Lord - Not men. On the fivefold ministry side of burn out I would recommend &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smolderingwickministries.org/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;www.smolderingwickministries.org/&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yourministrymatters.com&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;www.yourministrymatters.com&lt;/a&gt; to all the Carl&#039;s out there. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought what we do, we do as unto the Lord &#8211; Not men. On the fivefold ministry side of burn out I would recommend <a href="http://www.smolderingwickministries.org/" target="_blank">http://www.smolderingwickministries.org/</a> and <a href="http://www.yourministrymatters.com" target="_blank">http://www.yourministrymatters.com</a> to all the Carl&#039;s out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh M.</title>
		<link>http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/2009/06/helping-carl-with-burnout/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anthonycoppedge.com/problog/?p=125#comment-55</guid>
		<description>This is an all-too-common problem. My heart goes out to anyone in this situation. I&#039;ve been there too. 
This site on church culture cracked me up! Maybe you can have a laugh at it and help refocus? 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an all-too-common problem. My heart goes out to anyone in this situation. I&#039;ve been there too.<br />
This site on church culture cracked me up! Maybe you can have a laugh at it and help refocus?<br />
<a href="http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com" target="_blank">http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com</a></p>
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